SPEAKER_01 0:00

Well, our next board member has a very close friend named Emmy. She is an Emmy Award-winning voice actor. She's a singer. She's an MC. She is a story brand certified messaging strategist, and her clients include the NFL, hell yeah, McDonald's, Lego, Walmart, PBS, MailChimp, and a whole lot more. Before Voiceover, Erica Jay spent almost 20 years in project and product management, learning how to uncover what stakeholders actually needed. Today she's showing us how to apply that same thinking to our scripts and identifying the client's real business objective and how to deliver reads that don't just sound good, but actually make the message work. As the business guy, I couldn't be more curious. Eric Achae, so great to see. So good to see you, Paul, as always. Thanks for having me. Well, thanks. It's it's great to have you here. Let's start with this big idea behind this session, right? Yeah. What do you mean when you say every script has a business problem?

SPEAKER_00 1:03

Yes. So when you think about it, particularly with commercials, right? Like we're communicating this story within 30, 15, 6 seconds. Um, and there's a reason that they wrote this script. It wasn't just, hey, check out our really cool product. That product was developed to solve a problem. Um, in my story brand certification um training, we talked about how, you know, people really only spend their money, they part with these representations of their life energy that they have traded for money, right? To solve problems. It's either that they want to use this uh product or service to survive or thrive. And anything that you spend a dollar on is to either survive, like things like food, shelter, electricity, or to thrive, that you want to do something, you know, good to feel, like a vacation or whatever. You don't spend your part with your money for any other reason. Um, so when we get these scripts, these stories to tell, we are communicating about this product or this service or this thing that they want people to take action or to know about because there is a problem that they're saying that this can solve for you. I'll stop there because I could talk forever about this.

SPEAKER_01 2:17

Well, so that's my next question. We're trained as actors, right? We're trained, you know, around storytelling and pace and tone and character and all of these artistic things. What are we missing if we if we stop there?

SPEAKER_00 2:30

Yeah. It goes into the, you know, thing that the great VO coaches like Tina and Morasco and, you know, Dave Walsh are two of my faves. Um, if you're just reading and you're just executing the technical perspective of it, if you're just like, okay, well, I need to sound like this and this is the celebrity that they want, and I need to inflect up here or down here, you're not really getting into the the story and the reason that you're saying these words and the reason that they wrote the script in the first place, if you're only looking at that surface level of how to deliver it. It's about why you're delivering it, why they sent it to you, why they wrote it in the first place, and why they used the words that they used in the script.

SPEAKER_01 3:10

I assume what we're talking about here is equally applicable to actual spots or pieces, paid work, and auditions, right? Absolutely. Absolutely. So when you first get in a script, whether it's for an audition, whether it's for a full project, what do you start to look for when you're looking for that business problem? What are the clues?

SPEAKER_00 3:32

Yeah. They all have a setup, right? Um and I'm actually I'm in a uh Comedy 101 class right now, and it was funny how it it act just for funsies, right? Um it follows a joke, follows the same pattern as you'll see in these scripts and as telling a story. Um there's a setup of the problem or of the issue or of the joke. Um, and then there's a punchline, but for scripts, it's more like introducing or new, or you know, you start saying the brand name in the middle, right? And then at the end of it, there's some sort of resolution or tag to put a bow on it and sort of summarize what you just said. So I'm looking for that sort of three-part um structure when I get scripts. And even if it's like a longer corporate script, it really just means that the body, the middle part, the description, gets longer. But there's still always a setup that goes into a problem or that gives them the setup to explain the problem and then a resolution at the end to really put um that emotion that they want them to walk away with, a CTA or something that's going to be really memorable, right?

SPEAKER_01 4:37

So a lot of times we get, especially in auditions, uh that scenario, we get in specs that might be three words, it might be no words, there might be no creative direction whatsoever. For sure. How does a voice actor then intelligently sit down and start to figure out who the audience is and what the business problem is?

SPEAKER_00 4:57

Yeah. That's the hard part about being a voice actor, right? Is like we are guessing a lot of this stuff. For them to write that script. They probably had like a creative brief that went to the writer. There's probably a messaging Bible, if you will, or something like that where they came up with all of this. There was probably focus group testing to figure out which message landed and which didn't. And we don't get any of that. You know, we get the script, maybe we get some specs, and the specs could be as simple as female 25 to 55.

SPEAKER_01 5:31

Nice. That clears it right up for me.

SPEAKER_00 5:34

Exactly. Right. So we are having to imagine and create these worlds, or sometimes we get really detailed specs, and sometimes that helps, and sometimes it doesn't, because it's actually like information overload and doesn't give us a lot of creative liberty. Um, so we are really guessing a lot of the time, right? So the best thing that you can do is what a lot of the best VO coaches teach is to craft this world and craft this story. But with what I'm talking about is another layer of it and actually considering the business problem that the product or service that you're talking about is is is is selling. Um, even something like I had a case study script today, right? So I'm thinking to myself, why would why would I want someone to know that there were 200,000 brand active or whatever, you know, corporate speak, like that we had such and such engagements. Why would somebody care? Why would they write this script? Who are they writing it for? Who needs to hear this information and why do I want them to hear it? It's probably some sort of like B2B sales pitch, right? Like that they are maybe pitching some sort of partnership with another business. And they want you, I want you to hear this story about this case where we did this thing that was really cool, and these were the results that came out of it. So if you work with us, you know, we can get you a similar result. Or you so thinking at it from the business perspective of why they're communicating this issue, um, why it's a problem and who they're targeting can help you to also get into that story.

SPEAKER_01 7:04

Got it. We uh we get a lot of specs that will say warm or conversational or approachable or whatever it might be. How do we take those sort of warm and fuzzy artistic terms and relate that and give it meaning to the business problem at hand in the script?

SPEAKER_00 7:23

Yeah. I think it's who you're talking to. Um they may be looking for someone warm. Usually they want you to be warm, right? Because they want you to come across as someone, they want the message to be accepted. And when we hear warmth, we're like, oh, it disarms us, right? It instills trust. So when we're seeing those specs, thinking about how it is that they want the end listener to feel. Um and even like um, I use the example of like insurance companies, right? Most of them when we see those, it's comedy. Why is it comedy? Because none of us want to think about getting in a car accident. None of us want to think about dying. You know, all the things that we need insurance for. So usually those commercials use humor to disarm and just to make you remember the brand, right? Or they'll go the complete opposite route and it's very heartfelt and it pulls on your emotions. And you see, you know, the little baby that grew up and now they're going to college and the their mom and dad are waving as they drive away. You know, like because we're we're pulling on the emotional aspect to then embed the brand in your head. So when you think of insurance, you think of that brand, as opposed to being like, hey, you're gonna die one day, so uh you might want to get life insurance. That doesn't work because it in it gives you negative emotions rather than positive.

SPEAKER_01 8:40

Yeah. Uh you were uh a project manager for a very long time in the corporate world. How does that sort of inform the business side of the client experience? And what I mean by that is, yeah, there's all the warm and fuzzy stuff behind the mic, and we've got to identify the business problem and the artistic problem to be solved there. But then there's also the experience of working with you and the people that actually have skin in the game on the other side of the glass, the stakeholders, so to speak. How do you how do you become valuable to them and serve their needs as well?

SPEAKER_00 9:14

Yeah, in a few ways. Um, so I had the pleasure of working in both project and product management. So I'll start with product because that was the most recent. So a lot of my work sort of had embedded in it user experience. So just understanding that when a user is using a product, it's not to insult anybody, but being able to communicate things or have things laid out in a way that is on they used to say eighth grade reading level, and now it's more like fifth grade because our attention spans are so split. We are so busy. And the more that you can dumb it down, you know, or make it very simple and easy to digest, the more that your user is likely to interact with it and find it easy to use. So my process and um the way that I explain things to clients, making sure that it is easy, especially like if I'm explaining like media, right? If you've had somebody that's never purchased voiceover before and it's just like, well, how much is a 30? And it's like, well, I have to help you understand that if it's running in this market versus this one in exclusivity and you know, all the things that factor into how we price. Um, so there's that aspect, um, understanding how when I read scripts, making things sound easy, um, even calling out in a session where, like, hey, you know, would you want me to give you an alt in this way with these words, you know, so that it is very clear. Um and then also in my project management, also in product as well, um, I feel like I have a gift for being able to discern and and pull requirements out of people. I would frequently be in meetings where the stakeholder says they wanted to do one thing, the technical team is saying that there's another thing that's um feasible to build or how long it would take if it was more complex. And I can usually read between the lines. This helps me when I am in session and a director is like, yeah, you know, I just want it to feel a little bit more um, you know, like friendly, like you're talking to a friend and uncovering what they mean when they actually say talking to a friend, you know. Um, and I'll I'll say, you know, okay, so like maybe if I was like sitting at a coffee table in one way, and then maybe, you know, another time if I was uh having lunch with a coworker and they're like, yes, you know. So uncovering what they actually mean um is something that my corporate experience has been able to help me pull requirements out of creative directors so that I can deliver the performance that they want.

SPEAKER_01 11:36

Makes a lot of sense. We we also talked in the open about uh story brand. And for those that aren't familiar with the story brand framework by Donald Miller, you become a certified story brand messaging strategist. How what does that mean? Yeah. Uh what give me Story Brand in a in a thumbnail, and then how does that inform and help you be a better voice actor?

SPEAKER_00 11:58

Yeah. So Story Brand is all about clarifying your message so that your customers will listen, right? So it's really uh it's just ingrained in me. It's exactly what I was talking about is making whatever you're saying so clear that it doesn't take any work for the listener to understand what it is that you're saying. And Donald Miller's whole theory is about using stories because it is the best hack for the human brain to understand something and to capture their attention and for them to understand what it is that you're trying to say. Um, he was saying that, you know, all stories follow the same structure. He says he ruins movies because if you've studied the framework where it's like there's a problem and there is a hero that's introduced. That hero falls in a hole where now they have this issue and a guide comes along to help them get out of the hole. The guide is not the hero, the guide is somebody that's coming along to help you. And then they go through this trial and tribulation with the guide's guidance. Um, they have a um, they have positive stakes or negative stakes, right? Like depending on what choices that they make, and then it resolves with this solution. Um, and if you follow that framework and start watching movies through that lens, you'll be like, damn, that is how stories work. Obi-Wan Kenobi's the guide. Listen, that is it. And the thing is that in marketing and community, which is what we're doing as voice actors, we work in the marketing, advertising, communication industry, and we're audio consultants. Like it's a lot of things in one. So messaging comes into play because we are literally reading the distilled version of that brand's messaging, um, you know, and condensing it into, you know, a 30 or a 60 or six, you know, whatever we get. Um, so understanding that framework and how um these brands are using the words to communicate their solution to whatever problem they've identified to now get this consumer to buy in, um, having a deep understanding of that and how we verbalize it and humanize it for for that matter, to lift it off of the page will help you to tell better stories and better communicate what what they're trying to say.

SPEAKER_01 14:08

Uh it's no secret that you've been killing it for quite a while now. And I want to ask you if you could have sit down conversationally like a friend. Like a friend with younger Erica J, who was just starting out as a voice actor. What would be the one thing you would tell her that now seems obvious to you but wasn't to her?

SPEAKER_00 14:30

Ooh, that is a fantastic question. Um a few things come to mind. For one, and maybe I'm still talking to Erica today, too, um, is that less can be more. Um that you don't have to chase every single opportunity. I remember when I first first first started and I was on a P2P, and I mean I'm still on P2Ps, but now I know what I'm doing. Um, but I was on there chasing every audition I could find. You know, doing 40 auditions in a night after work, literally. Um that that does not work. We are in somewhat of a volume-based business. Um, but there not every story is appropriate for you to tell. Um, that it really is storytelling and not talking. I didn't know that in the beginning. I was just reading the words because I knew I had a nice voice. Um and of course, I would teach her the business side of this because she did not understand media buys and how DMAs come into play and that whatever number they give you, that all numbers are negotiable. All numbers are negotiable. That is a hard stance of mine. The other side may not be willing to move, but just because they've said that this is the rate, whether that is for a voiceover job, whether that is for you doing business with another business for like the admin side of your company or anything, all numbers are negotiable.

SPEAKER_01 15:58

Everything is negotiable. That's that's good advice. One of our uh board members last year was a mutual friend Christy Harst. And I wanted to ask you in in the context of being a female voice actor, uh, you've done work for the NFL, which is still a fairly rare thing for a woman to do. Is there progress being made? Are we backsliding? Where is the sort of what's the state of the state for female voice actors as it relates to more male-dominated genres like promo, especially for different clients? Are we making progress? Are we backsliding what's going on?

SPEAKER_00 16:35

Yeah, that's that's a great question. I don't know that I have the answer. Um, I was very, you know, very excited and very, I don't want to say fortunate because I mean I worked for that opportunity. Um, but I was very excited and and glad that somebody was like, yes, it should be a woman telling this story. Um I don't know if we're moving forward. I I think I've for what I've heard, and I know that there are more producers that are wanting to bring in more women, um, which is the first step, right? Like somebody on the other side of the glass saying, you know, let's use a woman for this, or at least let's wear hear female reads, right? Um, but yeah, there there are still a lot of genres that are very male dominated. So it's a matter of just continuing to push, continuing to train, being damn good at what you do, and being undeniable so that they keep seeing your name, they keep seeing that we're not going anywhere, and you know, just keeping on pushing on, I guess. Yep.

SPEAKER_01 17:32

Um back to performance again for for a minute. You get a script in, you're working on a project, you're collaborating with somebody across the glass, whether it's a producer, a creative director, whoever it might be. How how do you find the balance between what you bring to the table as you know, a really good voice actor, and serving the needs of and the business needs of the client and the stakeholders and everybody else on the other side?

SPEAKER_00 18:03

How do I find the balance? Um I mean, I guess for me, I I love doing this work. Um, I try to find a piece in of myself in every story that I'm telling. So that way, even though I am serving the client and what they want, I'm serving myself as well. I'm having a good time when I'm in here. Um the best sessions, the ones that I enjoy the most, are when I'm not just executing, but when I am um invited or even just allowed to be part of the strategy. You know, when I can say, when they're like, you know, well, which one do you like, Erica? Or when I can say, hey, you know, actually I'd love to try it this way, or, you know, like I can actually be part of that and not just the order taker. Um, and that's one of the things that I call out as my differentiator as I've learned and and been in this business for a while. I I'm no longer afraid to offer that up. And, you know, you can feel the vibe. Sometimes they're just like, eh, just do it this way. And it's like, all right, fine, you know, everybody has days at work where you just do the thing. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 19:05

Um you anticipated my next question because some clients are open to more collaboration than others, right? Yeah. So I guess my question there is how do you read that room?

SPEAKER_00 19:15

Yeah. Oh, great question. Hmm. That that is a great question, but it's kind of hard to answer. It's just been maybe part of it is ADHD superpower is pattern recognition. And I just read people well. Yeah, social skills. Uh so the social skills, the interpersonal skills. I did a lot of people watching when I was in corporate. Like I would literally uh in Richmond, where you are, uh, you know, downtown on Broad Street, and there's that area where there's all the food carts are there during the lunch hour on the out where the hospital is. Yeah. And there's a street in the middle where there are park benches, and I would just sit there and literally watch people. Um, pay attention to people, to how they talk when they are saying something, but you sense something different. Um, voice actors are very in tune with their emotions as they coach and learn themselves more. Watch other people as well, become more self-aware. And, you know, how you might move when you're in an uncomfortable thing situation, or when you are saying something, but you might feel a little differently, and you'll start to see it in other people. I was also a communication major, so I I have to I cheated a little bit, you know, like medication.

SPEAKER_01 20:26

Majors unite.

SPEAKER_00 20:28

Yes, yes, yes. We couldn't pick the right I I didn't know what I wanted to do and I landed on communication, but it worked out. Um, but yeah, so I learned a lot about like how interpersonal communication and nonverbal communication to include vocal tone um plays in.

SPEAKER_01 20:42

So read the room. Out there in the world and live, right? Amen. Sitting on the park bench and observing is a form of living because now you're noticing, now you're picking up things that you can use as a voice actor, right? Absolutely.

SPEAKER_00 20:55

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 20:56

Um we'll wrap with this. You've you've often said that the strongest read or the most effective read isn't always the prettiest one. What makes a read effective, even though it might not be the most polished, the most, you know, aesthetically pleasing read?

SPEAKER_00 21:13

Yeah. You know, as we have, as time has gone on, I I'm even learning this because I'm an elder millennial. Um, these young they want real. They are just craving authenticity. Like, and advertisers know it because they are reacting to the market in real time. That's why advertising changes like underwear, as they say. And like we are learning how society shifts because advertising is following it. So the pretty reads don't work anymore. They are produced and they know it. The listener, you know it. That's why a lot of people don't like AI content. Um, you know, there are some people that can, like, okay, I can appreciate it for this, but if you're really trying to persuade me, you're trying to sell me, you're trying to appeal to my emotions, I need real and perfection is not reality. Like, we are messy. We are imperfect. And they want when people want to see and hear themselves, particularly when they're trying to be convinced, because that's what establishes trust is, oh, this person is like me. That's why you'll see a spec where maybe they want a black woman, or maybe they want a queer person or an Asian person, or they do want, you know, a middle-aged white man because they are appealing to that audience and people want to see and hear themselves. And that makes them more um apt to be persuaded when they are when they see that mirror.

SPEAKER_01 22:34

Be who you are.

SPEAKER_00 22:37

That's the shorter version. That's the story brand version of all that that I just said.

SPEAKER_01 22:42

Is be you. See, I just boiled it down for you. That's all it did. You did it. You did it.

SPEAKER_00 22:47

You did it.

SPEAKER_01 22:48

It's great to see you, Erica J. Where do people find you if they want to connect?

SPEAKER_00 22:51

Likewise, Paul, thank you so much. Um, I am on all the well, not all the socials, because I don't use TikTok. I'm old. Uh, but Instagram at Miss Erica J. Um, I'm on LinkedIn and Facebook, Erica J Veney. Erica J.com is my website. And also, I will say that uh if anybody is looking for political demos, we have now launched politicaldemos.com. So you can find us there as well. That was just announced at OVC a little while ago. So um you can find us on political demos at Instagram as well. Um I'm I'm everywhere on the interwebs you can't miss me.

SPEAKER_01 23:24

Congratulations on politicaldemos.com and uh again on Instagram, Miss Erica J, which I always misread as Miss A Garage. She's one of my great merts.

SPEAKER_00 23:34

Um that sounds cooler.

SPEAKER_01 23:37

The brilliant and lovely Erica J. It's always good to see you, my friend. Thanks so much for joining us in the VO boardroom.

SPEAKER_00 23:43

Likewise, thank you, Paul.